I think it's time to start thinking more about this and I think I will be using this thread to collect intel and set up a plan. Most of the info here will be very custom for this individual build but maybe it will help out others who might be interested in this.
I still haven't decided if I will execute this build or not. I guess it comes down to price and difficulty of the build.
Der8auer has couple of good videos on the subject and they gave me couple of ideas that I think will implement as well.
I have found a firm that crafts custom aquariums: https://www.akvaariokauppa.fi/new/p7947-mittatilausakvaariot-fi.html
- They said they only build aquarium using acetoxy silicon sealant, I have sent a question to 3M about compatibility of that stuff
Other option would be to order a one piece glass container from a glass blowing shop: https://lasi-kostamo.fi/
One piece container would remove the trouble with edge sealing...
- They estimated that a one piece glass container of my required size could cost even as much as 800€ depending on the molds their subcontractors have available
It is becoming clear that any os the adhesive sealants used in aquarium making are not adviseable to use with Novec 7000. Options are to order a custom made one piece glass container or craft the tank using a metal frame and attaching the glass panels with bolts and using gaskets as a sealant.
To keep the case simple I was thinking of ordering a regular glass aquarium with custom dimensions and craft all the hardware mounting points as well as the cable and tube passthroughs into the lid. That way lifting the components from the case should be doable with lifting the lid off the aquarium. I was also thinking of copying Der8auer and adding an exhaust port into the case with another cooling element in it. That way I shouldn't have to worry about overpressure and still keep the gasses inside the case when the cooling element liquifies the gasses before they escape.
I'm done with the first sketch. All the dimensions are completely made up, this was mostly done just to learn CAD. The final design will have to be done completely from scratch.
Reference schematics for the backplate:
2nd iteration of the mounting tray:
Overall dimensions of the iteration: 254,94mm x 127,22mm x 311,22mm (not including protrusions of cables and connectors)
In this configuration the case would eat about 11 liter of the cooling liquid which is a hefty price...
Reference guide for cutting tempered glass:
All work has to be done before tempering.
Diameter of the perforation has to be at least 5mm or with thicker glass at least as wide as the thickness of the glass
Diameter of the perforation cannot be more than 1/3 of the width of narrowest side
Distance from the edge has to be at least 1,5 times the thickness of the glass for perforations less than 50mm and glass thickness less than 8mm
Distance from the corner of the glass has to be 4 times the thickness of the glass for perforations less than 50mm
Edges of the perforations has to be rounded
2nd iteration of the case. With steel frame and tempered glass panel that is bolted into the frame and a rubber gasket. I'm not completely satisfied with it, it is not 100% symmetric but gets the point across. Next iteration I should switch the positions of the PSU and storage media on the backside of the mounting plate, measure the dimensions of the SSD trays and design a block on the bottom of the case behind the tray. That should displace about 3 liters of the cooling liquid and save about 650€. Also need to design the lip of the case where the lid can be bolted on to.
The exhaust condenser could be something like this with a shroud added on top of it to restrict airway out of the case. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Mini-Air-cooled-Condenser-For-Showcase_60657912569.html?spm=a2700.gallery_search_cps.normalList.5.6dc75c15K7ofqw
But wouldn't condensing the exhaust gas also mean it would condense water from the air into the case? -> yes it would and it would still leak some gasses. Better to go with sealed case and bellows for the overpressure.
Good video on fluid loss mitigation solutions:
Instead of fabricating them myself, I could go with DIY tray parts like these:
Most low profile GPU mount found so far: https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/160509/sc-vgpu-mt/singularity-computers-spectre-2_0-2nd-vertical-gpu-mount-naytonohjaimen-vertikaalinen-kiinnityssarja-musta
Considering I will be stripping the GPU of its stock cooler, the card will be significantly lighter thus not needing that much of support so maybe go with a very simple solution that is also PCIE 4.0: https://linkup.one/linkup-ultra-pcie-4-0-x16-riser-cable-rtx3080-x570-b550-rx5700xt-tested-extreme-high-speed-itx-vertical-gaming-pci-express-gen4-2020-universal-90-degree-socket-20-cm-3-0-gen3-compatible/
Power switch: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32676328352.html
Dont forget rubber feet for the bottom: https://www.elfadistrelec.fi/fi/rubber-feet-square-nelioe-20-5x20-5x7-6mm-70-shore-musta-3m-sj-5023-black/p/14886594?q=&pos=8&origPos=8&origPageSize=50&track=true
I have found a retailer that told me they sell the liquid to private buyers: https://www.yeint.fi/elektroniikka/kemikaalit/jaahdytys/3m-novec-hfe-7000a-lammonsiirtonest
So the liquid is over 200€ per liter, might wanna look for other sources as well. Better also plan the case efficiently and try to keep it small I guess. I was planning to go with the 7100 liquid with 61C boiling point first as it's easy to work with. While that works with the hottest components it also means that every component in the system will be running at 61C so I'm thinking of going with 7000 liquid now as it has a boiling point of around 35C. Downside is that this requires a constant 24/7 cooling of the exhaust port because the already highly volatile liquid will start evaporating in room temperature quickly and also cooling the gas with room temperature elements might not be sufficient enough to liquify it back into the case, requiring a cooler like peltier plates or a water chiller. Might have to look into an overpressure valve that shuts off the case when the pc is not in use.
Good to know when designing the cooling system.
Polyacetyl (sic) (POM)
Polyether ether ketone (PEEK)
Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) aka teflon
Possible product to be used as a gasket: https://www.thomann.de/fi/monacor_mdm_25.htm?sid=9b96f6d3a5f242c704848b0e7d9c0684
14 gauge steel is 1.897mm thick.
Heat shrink tubing to shield the cables inside the case:
Cablemods support told me that their clear SFF cables are insulated using teflon. They would be perfect and wouldn't require protective sleeving!
PC Components (as of now, subject to change with upcoming releases)
The BEC is completely developmental substance and not available commercially. In order not to "choke" the high heat components such as CPU and GPU it is recommended to enlarge the boiling surface area. Pin fin heatsinks made of copper would be ideal but their mounting requires some intuition. Other option would be to attach a water block and take the cap off from them and expose the innards but I think the typical microfins found in them have too small gaps for the liquid to reach the boiling surface. Then there is the issue of TIM. Compounds are out of question I think. I would either have to solder the heatsink onto the IHS or use a thermal pad.
Pin fin heatsinks https://shenzhenlike.en.alibaba.com/product/60731280193-806107620/New_Product_Copper_Pin_Fin_Heat_Sink_Custom_Copper_Pin_Fin_Heatsink_Copper_Copper_Fin_Heatsink.html
Thermal pad: https://fi.rsdelivers.com/product/panasonic/eyga091203m/thermal-interface-sheet-graphite-1600w-mk-115-x/7124009 or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254574337321
GPU: https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/164724/rog-strix-rtx3090-24g-gaming/asus-geforce-rtx-3090-rog-strix-naytonohjain-24gb-gddr6x or https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/164678/tuf-rtx3080-10g-gaming/asus-geforce-rtx-3080-tuf-gaming-naytonohjain-10gb-gddr6x but will most likely wait for 3080 TI
M.2 SSD: https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/62107/qcjmn/Samsung-980-PRO-SSD-500-Gt-M-2-SSD-kovalevy
This could be done with peltier elements https://www.radioduo.fi/tuote/moduuli:-peltierin--15-6v--30-5a--62x62x3-9mm--350w--mat:-al2o3/PM-62X62-350/
or with a water chiller https://www.aquatuning.fi/vesijaeaehdytys/jaeaehdyttimet/chiller/4742/waterchiller-hailea-ultra-2000-hc1000-1650w-cooling-capacity?c=23132
The water chiller is interesting as that would require less work from my part but I am concerned with the noise that thing makes. Peltiers are going to require some assembly that I am worried will end up looking too much DIY.
Basic diagram of the cooling system:
Then we also need:
a radiator to work as a condensator https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/118349/at1011665/alphacool-nexxxos-ut60-full-copper-x-flow-240mm-jaahdytin
hard tubes inside the case, glass preferably https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/119836/at1012170/alphacool-hardtube-16-11mm-90-kulma-borosilikaattilasi-10-30cm or http://www.lasilaite.com/tuotteet/lasiputket-ja-sauvat
4x compression fittings for the hard tubes https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/152368/3831109815977/ek-waterblocks-ek-torque-htc-16-black-suora-putkiliitin-musta
4x Novec resistant O-rings for the fittings inside the case https://www.ahlsell.fi/34/lv/puristusliitinjarjestelma/puristusliittimien-tiivisteet/mapress/3263183/#
2x pass through fitting on the lid https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/116500/at1010442/alphacool-pikaliitinsarja-g1-4-sisakierre-lapivienti-musta or https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/145165/ph-ptf-bk-g1-4/phanteks-g1-4-premium-pass-through-fitting-lapivientiliitin-musta or https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/141884/3831109846964/ek-waterblocks-ek-af-pass-through-lapivientiholkki-g1-4-musta
soft tubing outside the case
2x quick detach fittings for the soft tube https://www.alphacool.com/shop/fittings/quick-release-connectors/19528/alphacool-eiszapfen-quick-release-connector-kit-g1/4-inner-thread-deep-black or
pump and reservoir combo
8x soft tubing fittings for the soft tubes
Water cooling block https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980170433.html
Flow sensor https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=2294
Temp sensor inside loop https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=3126
Temp sensors inside headspace https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=1621
Heatsink for controller https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/151578/4260073417631/aqua-computer-passiivijaahdytin-aquaero-6-punainen
The power of the controller will most like be not enough to run the TEC at full capacity but I am anticipating less that 30w required to run the TEC as it only needs to achieve delta C of about 5-10 degrees. This needs to be revised after the final math is done.
Some basic math needed to calculate TEC thermodynamics: http://tomswiki.wikifoundry.com/page/Peltier+(TEC)+Cooling
- [SOLVED] Materiel incompatible with the liquid. While a list of incompatible materiel can be found for the liquid, I foresee trouble in trying to figure what type of sealant they use in the aquarium and also in the pc components. Most are silicon based and that's a no go according to 3M. Better build the tank from metal.
- Passthroughs. I see 2 ways to do this. My first option is to install IO passthrough ports for every single cable to the system but if that turns out to be too difficult or too expensive the next best thing is to build a pipe from outside into the liquid, route all the cables through the pipe and use the liquid itself as an airlock. A low viscosity resin can be used in the pipe to further decrease liquid loss.
Possible products for pass throughs: https://www.thomann.de/fi/neutrik_data_liittimet.html
- [Unnecessary] Latches for the lid. How to attach sturdy enough latches into the glass aquarium to keep the lid shut tight?
- Cooling system automation. Ideally you would want the cooling system to ramp up as pressure builds inside the case. Measuring the cooling liquids temperature doesn't work that well with this kind of build. Temp sensors on different heights of the headspace sound like a good option to monitor the vapor levels. Powering the cooling system from the PC would also be nice but I might have to power it externally.
- [SOLVED] HDD's. I would like to submerge every component but mechanical hard drives don't like liquid of any kind. Apparently helium filled HDD's are completely sealed and "should" be fine. Fortunately I happen to have couple helium HDD's. Not much info about this with a quick googling. After searching a little it seems the hard drives are hermetically sealed with laser welding. That's enough confirmation for me, in they go!
- Fluid loss mitigation system. I would like to use bellows but I don't like the aesthetics of them. Maybe use an air balloon inside a metal shroud on top of the lid? How does the rubber of the ball react to the vapor? Most likely very badly as they have lots of plasticizers in them. DIY bellows might be the best solution.
- [SOLVED] Attaching condensator. First I was thinking of just attaching the radiator to the lid through the glass tubes with compression fittings but now I'm worried if they are enough to hold the radiator. This isn't actually an issue as a 120mm fan radiator can no way fit inside the aquarium horizontally with the mounting tray in the middle. The condensator has to be mounted vertically and then I can screw it straight into the mounting tray. The problem now is that the shroud will gather some liquid but with enough grit I'm sure I can bore some holes into the underside of the shroud....
- Coating. For reasons unknown, 3M recommends powder coating the insides of a metal case. Typical materials used in powder coating are not in the recommended list of materiel. Is powder coating really necessary? What material 3M would recommend?
-Desiccant. There are other options besides silicagel. What material 3M recommends?
[Done] Learn to use CAD and come up with a first sketch of the case
Contact 3M or the retailer about material compatibility
[Done] Contact several aquarium makers about the custom aquarium and their sealant solutions
[Done] Contact 3M and confirm the compatibility of the sealant used in the aquarium if necessary. -> not compatible
[Done] Design a second iteration of the tank but instead of using any adhesives to seal the glass panels, use bolts to attach the glass and a gasket.
[Done] Find someone who can fabricate the lid and the frame for the case. Preferably from stainless steel. This should not be a problem as there are several metal workshops near by.
Design 3rd iteration of the build with suggestions given by the metal workshop.
Find an outlet that can provide me with the tempered glass panel according to my custom design
Choose parts for the PC, get their dimensions and sum up their TDP
Find someone who can deliver all the different special parts and cables needed inside the case according to material compatibility
Design the cooling solution according to the TDP
Design the semifinal version of the case with the correct component measurements
Request quotes for all the outside work needed.
Calculate costs and make a decision on execution.
Order at least samples of different parts that go into the lid
Design the final version of the case with the correct IO perforation measurements
Order all the parts and custom work
(very) Rough estimates:
Aquarium 100€ or one piece glass container could be even 800€
Novec liquid 2000€
The lid 200€
Bits and pieces for the cooling solution 500€
bits and pieces and RGB for the components 500€
Less so rough estimates:
M.2 NVME SSD 145,89
Estimated total: 6607€